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	<title>Comments on: Is local church membership meaningful?</title>
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	<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/</link>
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		<title>By: papacarchy</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>papacarchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-421</guid>
		<description>troy, thanks for the correction. I actually misunderstood the word - I thought proscribe meant &#039;official&#039; or &#039;prescribed&#039;. Oops... But thanks and a keen eye, lad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>troy, thanks for the correction. I actually misunderstood the word &#8211; I thought proscribe meant &#8216;official&#8217; or &#8216;prescribed&#8217;. Oops&#8230; But thanks and a keen eye, lad.</p>
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		<title>By: papacarchy</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>papacarchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-419</guid>
		<description>Good comments. My frustration lies with fairly simply expectations, spelled out pretty clearly in our covenant.

I hope my expectations don&#039;t exceed the covenant, a framework which has guided our shared understanding for 20 years. In the early days we took a longer period of time to teach through those &#039;expectations.&#039; Perhaps that longer process is worth revisiting.

I think that for me, as an older person, the reality that concepts like consistency, faithfulness, and diligence had lost a certain shared meaning slipped up on me without me fully understanding these values had lost some of their weightiness.  I think, that if what I am suggesting is true then we need to find a way to re-envision these ideals which help make community possible.

A study done on couples married 50 or more years suggests that it&#039;s quantity of time spent together rather than quality which makes for depth. The implication is that it takes quantity to have a chance at quality. This is difficult if regular attendance to the one gathering we have weekly is considered to be optional (and I am talking about those who have in principal made a commitment to try and live out the ideas embodied in the covenant). Let me add that I&#039;m not saying regularly missing the weekly worship gathering makes you a bad Christian - I am saying that it takes consistent involvement to build something meaningful, and to make an impact on others in the local body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments. My frustration lies with fairly simply expectations, spelled out pretty clearly in our covenant.</p>
<p>I hope my expectations don&#8217;t exceed the covenant, a framework which has guided our shared understanding for 20 years. In the early days we took a longer period of time to teach through those &#8216;expectations.&#8217; Perhaps that longer process is worth revisiting.</p>
<p>I think that for me, as an older person, the reality that concepts like consistency, faithfulness, and diligence had lost a certain shared meaning slipped up on me without me fully understanding these values had lost some of their weightiness.  I think, that if what I am suggesting is true then we need to find a way to re-envision these ideals which help make community possible.</p>
<p>A study done on couples married 50 or more years suggests that it&#8217;s quantity of time spent together rather than quality which makes for depth. The implication is that it takes quantity to have a chance at quality. This is difficult if regular attendance to the one gathering we have weekly is considered to be optional (and I am talking about those who have in principal made a commitment to try and live out the ideas embodied in the covenant). Let me add that I&#8217;m not saying regularly missing the weekly worship gathering makes you a bad Christian &#8211; I am saying that it takes consistent involvement to build something meaningful, and to make an impact on others in the local body.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-418</guid>
		<description>The black dwarf does sound crabby.  Being part of the group who took the most recent membership class, maybe I have a different perspective than the other posters so far.
I am sorry, but your frustration with the membership of Lamb of God can’t be laid fully at the lack of activity of the new members.  Some people will fail in their commitment on their own.  But I think that some of the expectations you have of members, have been left as “nebulous” as the “body of Christ” you wish to avoid.  Also the path toward being a good member needs to be clear for people to follow it.

There are a few things that I think shine some light on the way things are in our church, and in our culture. Young members of a family need to be modeled on how to act as well as told.  When they fail they need to be held accountable. This is not just for committing sin but in meeting the expectations of the leadership.  My guess is the people who are not meeting your expectations of membership are not reading this blog either.  Because our churches model is not typical it will be more difficult for people to conform to the model.
Our society is much more mobile than it used to be, real neighborhood churches are behind us there is no way to bring that back unless you want to become Amish.  Community on the other hand is possible. Community without the proximity of a neighborhood is more difficult, so we need to be more intentional to make it happen.
As I mentioned earlier modeling to new members what community looks like is important.  If there was a structure for members to follow there would be no confusion about whom is falling short and what to do about it.

I would be disappointed if my commitment was revoked over others failure. I know that I personally could do better but I hope that I am living up to expectations.  I know that community is a group effort but the failure of some should never destroy the whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The black dwarf does sound crabby.  Being part of the group who took the most recent membership class, maybe I have a different perspective than the other posters so far.<br />
I am sorry, but your frustration with the membership of Lamb of God can’t be laid fully at the lack of activity of the new members.  Some people will fail in their commitment on their own.  But I think that some of the expectations you have of members, have been left as “nebulous” as the “body of Christ” you wish to avoid.  Also the path toward being a good member needs to be clear for people to follow it.</p>
<p>There are a few things that I think shine some light on the way things are in our church, and in our culture. Young members of a family need to be modeled on how to act as well as told.  When they fail they need to be held accountable. This is not just for committing sin but in meeting the expectations of the leadership.  My guess is the people who are not meeting your expectations of membership are not reading this blog either.  Because our churches model is not typical it will be more difficult for people to conform to the model.<br />
Our society is much more mobile than it used to be, real neighborhood churches are behind us there is no way to bring that back unless you want to become Amish.  Community on the other hand is possible. Community without the proximity of a neighborhood is more difficult, so we need to be more intentional to make it happen.<br />
As I mentioned earlier modeling to new members what community looks like is important.  If there was a structure for members to follow there would be no confusion about whom is falling short and what to do about it.</p>
<p>I would be disappointed if my commitment was revoked over others failure. I know that I personally could do better but I hope that I am living up to expectations.  I know that community is a group effort but the failure of some should never destroy the whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Russo</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Russo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 05:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-417</guid>
		<description>I am well aware of the modern world marriage thing. I understand what you are saying but I am excited to commit and wanted you to know that I am serious about this in my life.
Vicki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am well aware of the modern world marriage thing. I understand what you are saying but I am excited to commit and wanted you to know that I am serious about this in my life.<br />
Vicki</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 03:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-416</guid>
		<description>Scott, you already know my views on this matter, but I&#039;ll state them again for the record: I believe in the membership commitment, because the Church is more than just a group of people who believe the same stuff about God.  We are to be committed to one another, we are to serve one another, and we are to love one another.  If our commitment is only to God and a set of propositional truths about Him, what&#039;s the point of having a church?  I can do that by myself!  If I cannot rely on my brothers and sisters to love and support me, especially those who have made a public commitment to do so, then Christianity is a lie.

All of this basically confirms your comment about our need to &quot;carefully consider whether we are actually able to make a commitment to membership.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, you already know my views on this matter, but I&#8217;ll state them again for the record: I believe in the membership commitment, because the Church is more than just a group of people who believe the same stuff about God.  We are to be committed to one another, we are to serve one another, and we are to love one another.  If our commitment is only to God and a set of propositional truths about Him, what&#8217;s the point of having a church?  I can do that by myself!  If I cannot rely on my brothers and sisters to love and support me, especially those who have made a public commitment to do so, then Christianity is a lie.</p>
<p>All of this basically confirms your comment about our need to &#8220;carefully consider whether we are actually able to make a commitment to membership.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: papacarchy</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>papacarchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-415</guid>
		<description>Vicki,
Thanks for your sincerity and zeal to become a member. I think that this is a topic that needs to be re-visited by some who have already made this &#039;covenant commitment.&#039; Even after 20 years of Lamb I am still surprised by the way in which some folks who make this commitment end up interpreting how they intend to live it out.

One of my convictions is that we should more carefully consider whether we are actually able to make a commitment to membership. If we want it to actually mean something, and not be merely a formality then those things which that commitment entails must be clear to the person making that commitment.  I think that in the past we have had folks go through the classes, and appear to be willing to embrace the commitment only to decide afterwards that they will modify according to their circumstances, picking and choosing what they will do or not do. This weakens the meaning of commitment (rather like marriage in the modern world).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicki,<br />
Thanks for your sincerity and zeal to become a member. I think that this is a topic that needs to be re-visited by some who have already made this &#8216;covenant commitment.&#8217; Even after 20 years of Lamb I am still surprised by the way in which some folks who make this commitment end up interpreting how they intend to live it out.</p>
<p>One of my convictions is that we should more carefully consider whether we are actually able to make a commitment to membership. If we want it to actually mean something, and not be merely a formality then those things which that commitment entails must be clear to the person making that commitment.  I think that in the past we have had folks go through the classes, and appear to be willing to embrace the commitment only to decide afterwards that they will modify according to their circumstances, picking and choosing what they will do or not do. This weakens the meaning of commitment (rather like marriage in the modern world).</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki Russo</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/uncategorized/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki Russo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/is-local-church-membership-meaningful/#comment-414</guid>
		<description>Since I just requested membership status at LOG, this blog hurts alittle. I definitely feel membership is important because it holds the participants accountable to the rest of the community in the church.  Without membership, we do not belong. We are observers instead. I want membership not observance. I have been observing for a year now and I choose LOG to be my eternal church. I do not think membership is mandatory because after someone attends they may see differences personally that would lead them to non-membership.
But if a person decides to make the committment, then &quot;YES&quot;, there should be a process and a procedure to join the church as a permanent member.
Vicki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I just requested membership status at LOG, this blog hurts alittle. I definitely feel membership is important because it holds the participants accountable to the rest of the community in the church.  Without membership, we do not belong. We are observers instead. I want membership not observance. I have been observing for a year now and I choose LOG to be my eternal church. I do not think membership is mandatory because after someone attends they may see differences personally that would lead them to non-membership.<br />
But if a person decides to make the committment, then &#8220;YES&#8221;, there should be a process and a procedure to join the church as a permanent member.<br />
Vicki</p>
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