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	<title>Comments on: Charismatic chaos &#8211; It is a time for courage to bring correction to the excesses&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/revival/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/revival/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/</link>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/revival/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/comment-page-1/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/#comment-460</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Since you made this comment I suppose you are aware of situation with Todd and his marriage, which is a great tragedy. I pray that he is able to reconcile with her and be restored to his marriage.

Also, you may or may not be aware that Lee Grady, and editor at Charisma Mag has published a rather sobering assessment of the whole Lakeland &#039;revival.&#039; He was an early enthusiast and after some careful investigation took a much more circumspect point of view. 

Check out the following link for his editorial - http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308%7ELife+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Since you made this comment I suppose you are aware of situation with Todd and his marriage, which is a great tragedy. I pray that he is able to reconcile with her and be restored to his marriage.</p>
<p>Also, you may or may not be aware that Lee Grady, and editor at Charisma Mag has published a rather sobering assessment of the whole Lakeland &#8216;revival.&#8217; He was an early enthusiast and after some careful investigation took a much more circumspect point of view. </p>
<p>Check out the following link for his editorial &#8211; <a href="http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308%7ELife+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion" rel="nofollow">http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308%7ELife+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Switzer</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/revival/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/comment-page-1/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>David Switzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/#comment-447</guid>
		<description>Blessings on you and Lamb of God Fellowship!  I got to this through the ARC newsletter and going to your website.  I speak as someone who has been intimately involved in the ARC, and still retains a measure of contact.  I speak as someone who has the utmost respect for Scott Pursley and his love for God and his gift for teaching.  I speak as someone who was delivered from depression almost 7 years ago by a healing pastor in Toronto.  I speak as someone who currently is membered in Grace Church in Franklin, TN, pastored by Lindell Cooley who God called from Brownsville to pastor this church.  I have also experienced Lakeland first hand, having been there with my wife in June 2008.

I cannot begin to speak to the theological expertise that Scott brings.  I am not that well versed in theology.  I do appreciate the balance that he seeks to bring to the discussion, and the honest imploring for this balance that he suggests.  And I am not acting as an apologist for Todd Bentley.  There are most assuredly things I would, in my understanding of the gospel, do differently than he does.  What of the fruit of this event?  Are you questioning the veracity of the healings that have occurred?  I feel that Mr. Bentley does act a little full of himself.  He presumes things and utters them with the kind of authority that may convince folks of their truth and perhaps not encourage delving more deeply into the matter.  This can be dangerous when appealing to the masses.  That being said, to say that Lakeland is a travesty is yet another attack from within that divides the bdoy of Christ and diminishes the good that has come from this event.

I am not prepared to say whether time will bear this out as a travesty or as part of a true revival.  I am not convinced in either direction.  I do not believe that we are to &quot;long for revival.&quot;  I believe we are called to &quot;seek ye frist the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you.&quot;  We are to long for the face of God, for His kingdom to be made manifest.  When we do that, God will bring what God&#039;s gonna bring, and it will be wonderful.  John Arnott from Toronto has said that &quot;manifestation without transformation is pointless.&quot;  Heidi Baker has said that this time in history will be marked by intimacy with the Father, and that a true nameless, faceless generation will be what God uses to bring His kingdom.  Folks in leadership in the Church who feel this way are not condemning Lakeland.  If correction is to be brought, then let us do it without words like &quot;travesty.&quot;  You can certainly make the argument that Todd Bentley is working a little to hard to have his face be at the forefront of this.  If God feels that repentance is necessary here, Todd Bentley, if he is being truthful before God, will be encouraged by God to do that.  And if today&#039;s church leaders need to bring balance to this, then I agree, Scott, they should step up in love.

Yes, we as a church should not sit back and merely accept what is going on there as gospel.  We need to use our minds, hearts, and souls to discern God&#039;s truth.  I do pray that Todd Bentley is accountable before someone who is not simply a &quot;yes&quot; person and who will bring God&#039;s holy presence into his life in a way that causes him to express the true gospel in a humble way.  Beyond that, I will continue to pray that God will be made manifest throught what is going on there, that whatever is not of Him will be cast into the lake of fire, and that we as His church will know the difference well enough to do the right thing in response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blessings on you and Lamb of God Fellowship!  I got to this through the ARC newsletter and going to your website.  I speak as someone who has been intimately involved in the ARC, and still retains a measure of contact.  I speak as someone who has the utmost respect for Scott Pursley and his love for God and his gift for teaching.  I speak as someone who was delivered from depression almost 7 years ago by a healing pastor in Toronto.  I speak as someone who currently is membered in Grace Church in Franklin, TN, pastored by Lindell Cooley who God called from Brownsville to pastor this church.  I have also experienced Lakeland first hand, having been there with my wife in June 2008.</p>
<p>I cannot begin to speak to the theological expertise that Scott brings.  I am not that well versed in theology.  I do appreciate the balance that he seeks to bring to the discussion, and the honest imploring for this balance that he suggests.  And I am not acting as an apologist for Todd Bentley.  There are most assuredly things I would, in my understanding of the gospel, do differently than he does.  What of the fruit of this event?  Are you questioning the veracity of the healings that have occurred?  I feel that Mr. Bentley does act a little full of himself.  He presumes things and utters them with the kind of authority that may convince folks of their truth and perhaps not encourage delving more deeply into the matter.  This can be dangerous when appealing to the masses.  That being said, to say that Lakeland is a travesty is yet another attack from within that divides the bdoy of Christ and diminishes the good that has come from this event.</p>
<p>I am not prepared to say whether time will bear this out as a travesty or as part of a true revival.  I am not convinced in either direction.  I do not believe that we are to &#8220;long for revival.&#8221;  I believe we are called to &#8220;seek ye frist the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you.&#8221;  We are to long for the face of God, for His kingdom to be made manifest.  When we do that, God will bring what God&#8217;s gonna bring, and it will be wonderful.  John Arnott from Toronto has said that &#8220;manifestation without transformation is pointless.&#8221;  Heidi Baker has said that this time in history will be marked by intimacy with the Father, and that a true nameless, faceless generation will be what God uses to bring His kingdom.  Folks in leadership in the Church who feel this way are not condemning Lakeland.  If correction is to be brought, then let us do it without words like &#8220;travesty.&#8221;  You can certainly make the argument that Todd Bentley is working a little to hard to have his face be at the forefront of this.  If God feels that repentance is necessary here, Todd Bentley, if he is being truthful before God, will be encouraged by God to do that.  And if today&#8217;s church leaders need to bring balance to this, then I agree, Scott, they should step up in love.</p>
<p>Yes, we as a church should not sit back and merely accept what is going on there as gospel.  We need to use our minds, hearts, and souls to discern God&#8217;s truth.  I do pray that Todd Bentley is accountable before someone who is not simply a &#8220;yes&#8221; person and who will bring God&#8217;s holy presence into his life in a way that causes him to express the true gospel in a humble way.  Beyond that, I will continue to pray that God will be made manifest throught what is going on there, that whatever is not of Him will be cast into the lake of fire, and that we as His church will know the difference well enough to do the right thing in response.</p>
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		<title>By: Lon</title>
		<link>http://lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/revival/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/comment-page-1/#comment-441</link>
		<dc:creator>Lon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 00:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lambofgodnj.org/blogs/black-dwarf/charismatic-chaos-why-it-is-crucial-for-the-pentecostalcharismatic-movement-to-call-for-a-sober-judgment-of-its-excesses/#comment-441</guid>
		<description>One thing that has always bothered me is the complicity of the Christian publishing industry, including the Christian bookstores in spreading this claptrap.  I have on occasion confronted the managers at some Christian bookstores and pointed out to them that they are answerable to God for the material that they put on their shelves.  I usually get the line that since they are a chain, they have to sell what senior management tells them to sell.  Time to become an independent bookseller, if that&#039;s the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that has always bothered me is the complicity of the Christian publishing industry, including the Christian bookstores in spreading this claptrap.  I have on occasion confronted the managers at some Christian bookstores and pointed out to them that they are answerable to God for the material that they put on their shelves.  I usually get the line that since they are a chain, they have to sell what senior management tells them to sell.  Time to become an independent bookseller, if that&#8217;s the case.</p>
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